I was looking through my blog and the comments that "4hisglory" posted. He asked me some questions that I believe I never answered. I apologize, I must have missed them. When you commented your main point was this,
"The problem with your post is that you never answered either of my questions (at least I didnt see that you did). I'll repost the main question I would like you to address.
Lastly, if you believe that James and Romans are seperate messages to seperate audiencs then how might you interpret Romans 2:13, seeing that the context is clearly referring to Gentiles (notice the "for" in vs.14, which connects vs13 to vs14)?"
First off I do believe that James and Romans are separate messages to separate audeinces. I don't believe this because just for the heck of it, I believe this because God's Word says so. James 1:1 specifically and I mean specifically says,
"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the TWELVE TRIBES WHICH ARE SCATTERED ABROAD, greeting."
Now in order for the book of James to be to you, you would have to be a Jew apart of the 12 tribes of Israel wouldn't you? Unless you believed that you were Israel, or spiritual Israel, or reformed Israel, or something like that. I however because God's Word never says this, do not believe this. In fact, God in time past made a distinction between the nation Israel and the Gentile nations. Israel was His special nation to carry out His plans and purposes for the earth. They were the Friends of God, us Gentiles were the enemies of God unless of course under the Abrahamic covenant we blessed Israel such as Rahab. Anyways, so yes I believe that James is written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad and not to us, and yes I believe that Romans was not only written to the Romans, but as they were apart of the Gentile nations it is also written to us Gentiles today.
It is therefore that I would interpret Romans 2:13-14 thus. Paul in Romans 1 and 2 proves that Gentiles represented by Greeks (the wise) and the Barbarians (the unwise) ch.1 v.14 and the Jews in ch. 2 v. 17 are guilty before God ch. 3 v. 19 and concludes his argument of this in ch. 3. In ch. 3 v. 9 Paul says, "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;" The reason Paul does this is to show them that everyone is fallen short of the glory of God and to proceed to give them the gospel. Romans is a great book to show someone they are lost and to give them the word that faith may come and by hearing the word of God and the gospel of their salvation they may become saved. Anyways, how does Paul prove that Jews and Gentiles are all under sin? He doesn't just simply point to their sinful nature, but what their sinful nature does? He gives the account of what happened to us Gentiles in Genesis when God gave us up and over. He explains to those who never heard of God that His invisible attributes even His power and Godhead are made known to them by His creation in ch. 1 v. 20. Chapter 2 he explains those who think highly of themselves and judge others when they do the same things, they are without excuse. In verse 17 he starts dealing with the Jew and proves that they haven't kept the law therefore they are guilty before God.
As for chapter 2 verses 13 and 14, it is interesting that you pointed out the parenthetical statement by Paul. Read the flow without verses 13-15. "For as many as have sinned without the law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." A few things to note.
1. Verse 12, Paul simply states that those who have sinned without law (Gentiles) shall also perish without law, meaning they are still sinners, however they are without excuse, because of what Paul said in the preceding chapter and verses.
2. However those who have sinned in the law (Jews) shall be judged by the law. The Jews have the law written, they have the knowledge of sin (ch. 3 v. 20).
3. The Jews will be judged by that law this will happen when God shall judge the secrets of men by Christ according to Paul's gospel.
4. Although the Gentiles don't have the law they are still without excuse because they glorify God not as God, but worship the creature rather than the Creator and what Paul says in ch. 1.
Lets look at the verses you now talk about:
"(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)" Romans 2:13-15 (i included verse 15)
Paul simply states twice that "Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves" Gentiles do not have the law, however, they do the things contained in the law. It is because they do the things that are contained in the law, having not the law, that they are a law unto themselves. I am trying to interpret something that doesn't need interpreting.
Now in verse 15 Paul says "which shows the work of the law written in their hearts," now the law isn't written in their hearts, but the work of the law. What is the work of the law? Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." God's wrath is written on their hearts because they know between good and evil and continue to do evil. Paul is simply arguing that all people Jew and Gentile's that we are all guilty before God whether we are under the law or not.
My personal opinion outside the Scriptures, this is a perfect example of Christians today who are not under the law, but put themselves under and all it does is works wrath and death and insecurity. I am not saying that a Christian that puts themselves under the law today aren't saved, but that they are confused and think they can do something that they can't. Most Christians can't even list the 10 commandments and most Christians don't even know that the law isn't just the 10 commandments, but 613 commandments. It is ignorance and to think we are under the new covenant therefore having the Spirit to obey the commandments, no the new covenant says that God will give to the house of Israel and the house of Judah the Spirit that will cause them to keep the commandments. CAUSE THEM!!!!! They will be perfect!!! NO ONE IS PERFECT TODAY!!!!! We have the Spirit today, but it is to walk under grace not the law, it is to show us how to walk in liberty. Paul says in Gal. 5:13, "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another." In verse 18 of the same chapter he says, "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." The Spirit today reveals to us that we are not under the law, the Spirit with Israel in the future will cause them to keep the law, Israel will be under the law, the law won't change however the spirit will, it will be God's Spirit that changes and will cause them to walk under the law perfectly, it is then they will be a royal priesthood.
To conclude Paul is talking to Jew and Gentile (God sees everyone as Gentiles today though), but giving them a different message then James who is only talking to the twelve tribes scattered abroad giving them good sound doctrine for the tribulation period, but tells them that "faith without works is dead" which it will be in the future with Israel.
James says in chapter 2 v. 24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
Paul says in Romans chapter 4 v. 4-5, "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom. 3:28, "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."
Rom. 3:20, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."
From Paul to James they say the complete opposite things and you cannot reconcile and if you try to you will end up in utter confusion. Leave them in their context where God desires them.
Paul is speaking to all men in Romans, James is speaking to the Twelve Tribes of Israel scattered abroad, Paul is writing under grace, James is writing under the law under the heavenly taste of the Holy Spirit that they received in Acts 2, that gives them the power to keep the commandments of Moses and of Christ. Two different people, two different audiences, two different messages all truth just written for different specific times. One last verse to us in the dispensation of the grace of God from our apostle Paul 1 Tim. 1:6-7, "From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm."
If anyone has anymore questions please ask away.
